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purchase spaceclaim as downloadable?
Hi there (dear spaceclaim management)
My maximum respect for 'spaceclaim' in the very first place!!
I'm living and make my living (not starving at all :)) in germany and I'm a frequent and very (!) satisfied customer of novedge.
My main application is Rhino 4 (working as a design engineer with rhino (since V1) and a couple of other CAD-systems and beeing a CAD-consultant for midrange and small businesses as well).
A few weeks ago I got interested in 'bunkspeeds HyperShot' and incidentally found novedges offer for 'spaceclaim LTX'.
I took a closer look and had an intense testdrive with the demo which almost instantly made
me into an addict. I desperately WANTED to buy!! (...allways having $ 775 in my mind)
Now - guess what!? There was neither a downloadable version, nor a chance at all to buy an international version of spaceclaim via novedge from germany.
I was amazed and contacted some german and swiss resellers and had to realize, that the german price for spaceclaim was about 1.300 euro (!)...Depending on the exchange-rate for that day and plus 19% VAT (germany) that would have summed up to 2066 US $ compared to 775 US $, if there was a downloadable version available at novedge.... like is for almost every other software they sell.
(OK - I'm selfemployed - so lets forget about the VAT, if I buy in germany)
The other day I finally bought 'HyperShot' ($ 899), a compagnion-product to spaceclaim - OF COURSE as a downloadable version!
(by the way - another amazing story is, that 'HyperShot' is called a Partner/Compagnion-product
on the spaceclaim-website...but when I tried to figure out, if that means, that there either is a
version of spaceclaim pro with hypershot already being built into it available, or if there is only a
built-in plugin in spaceclaim pro, I just could'nt (figure out)...there were two different statements as to that.
One said: HyperShot HD only works with spaceclaim pro, the other was: ..it works with all versions - exept the LT-version.
I would have rather prefered to buy spaceclaim pro with HyperShot HD as a bundle.)
Back to the european pricing of spaceclaim LTX....
For 1800 US $ I can book a two way ticket to NY or Miami, buy spaceclaim, pay the customs, get back and still have some money left. DOES this marketing approach really make sense to anyone?
Call me 'naive' - but I'll keep on wondering, why all the bankers in this world are not even allowed but forced to make money out of exchange rates by buying or selling foreign currencies, while WE (the 'simple' ones) are prosecuted by our tax-administrations and customs for the same idea, when buying products and comparing offers around the globe (SIMPLY BEACAUSE it is possible!). We either have a global market or we don't have it. We either are world-citizens with a global communication or we ain't. Especially for software, there seems no obvious reason for having totally different prices all around the globe.
OR can any 'master of economics' or similar please explain to me, why this would make sense in a 'global village' - I'd badly like to learn about the arguements.
The only reason I could possibly think of is, that european and especially german resellers are not willing to sell low-price-products, because they would argue, that they won't make enough money compared to the IMMENSE ;/ amount of work, that it takes to sell a piece of software on the phone :) That may well be the reason for the fact, that you can't buy 'spaceclaim LT' in germany.
But that was YESTERDAY - make spaceclaim purchasable via download and you will see, that it works. Don't buy into resellers arguements like: "CAD-software has to have a high price in germany - else noone will take it for serious"..its not true!! Rhino, Sketchup-Pro* and Alibre are proving the opposite. And if the market is an estimated 5.000.000 professional CAD-Users around the globe at this time, you will see it explode with the 'spaceclaim' kind of UI/approach very soon, if you do not only keep it simple and fast but also affordable (I'm talking about overall prices below $ 1.000)
*just take a look at the unbelievably high number of sketchup-related entries/tutorials at 'youtube'. What does that tell you?
I'm promoting and selling sketchup-pro (and a bunch of other CAD/Modelling software) and NOONE ever had a problem with 350 € for an 'engine' like that.
The sale usually consumes no extra time at all, since everyone has played around with the freely available public version of 'sketchup' before they decide to buy the 'pro'-version.
Don't forget that Rhino penetrated the market the way it did, because it was easyly available at a very affordable price.
Rhino's clients, as well as Sketchup's clients are in their vast majority INDIVIDUALS...freelancers, small offices...so small budgets mainly ...but budgets.
Spaceclaim is the right idea at the right TIME - but in the meanTIME, TIME is riding very fast theese days, especially in this business.
The big players already offer visions and/or ready solutions (NX, Solidegde, inventor, solidworks (soon), CoCreate) with the very same technology, so no need for the big companies to switch to another very new software with all the inherent risks.
*By the way - I'm not talking about nationalized (language addopted) versions, but about international versions.
Everyone here in germany (who has successfully achieved his drivers-licence and in addition is able to handle his tv-remote controls :) ought be able to operate a system like 'spaceclaim' with ease...
So please - where's the international language version for download and purchase via novedge? :)
I'm absolutely no marketing specialist, but thinking about it and having to do with this business as an
end-user and as a CAD-consultant for almost two decades I strongly believe, that selling i.e. 100.000 licenses in the first year for say $ 775 results in a reasonably strong community having the power to financially support further fast development of the software to have it established, whereas selling i.e. 20.000 licenses for say $ 2.500 ends up in a much smaller community...and when it comes to the next step/upgrade less power for development.
A). 775 $ x 100.000 = 77.500.000 $ compared to i.e. B). 2.500 $ x 20.000 = 50.000.000 $
>>> first upgrade
A). 500 $ x 50.000 = 25.000.000 $ compared to B). 500 $ x 10.000 = 5.000.000 $
I'm not very firm in math's, but my favourite solution was definitly plan A.
You may also call it the McNeel-plan :)
'nough and thx for today :)
klaus middendorf
ps:
division: 'hot rumors' :)
Do you think GOOGLE has allready become aware of 'spaceclaim'?
AT LAST :) (or I should better say - finally) they are the guys who out of the blue bought 'atLast-Software' and made SketchUp even more famous and since someone on the forum found this marvelous comparison and called spaceclaim "a SketchUp on Steroids" :) (I love that one!) they might get the clou and buy spaceclaim...
or worse for spaceclaim !!! copy the idea and harvest the market with something like a
'SketchUp Pro-engineering edition'* :) ...Beware of the GOOGLES - powerfull they are!!! .. and never think it was impossible!
(* especially the PTC-people would like this title - would'nt they?)
SECOND(...last...)LY - did anyone register, what's going on at Dassault Systems? Take a look at 3D-VIA-shape - IT has already begun!
Its the SketchUp approach but it does'nt seem to feature Polygon-modelling any longer and ...look at the UI and the 'Pull-technology'.
Got it? http://www.3dvia.com/software/3dvia-shape/ ...watch it! Trust me - they will have filleting and chamfering just the way spaceclaim has in the very near future.
Professionals will still know, that there is a big difference, but psychologically this will have a tormendous
effect on the way newcomers look at this 'push-pull-technology'. They just won't appreciate it the way they should...and selling it as an 'advanced technology' becomes a pain because it seems so common and everybody will tell how easy to use (perception = simple) it is.
My maximum respect for 'spaceclaim' in the very first place!!
I'm living and make my living (not starving at all :)) in germany and I'm a frequent and very (!) satisfied customer of novedge.
My main application is Rhino 4 (working as a design engineer with rhino (since V1) and a couple of other CAD-systems and beeing a CAD-consultant for midrange and small businesses as well).
A few weeks ago I got interested in 'bunkspeeds HyperShot' and incidentally found novedges offer for 'spaceclaim LTX'.
I took a closer look and had an intense testdrive with the demo which almost instantly made
me into an addict. I desperately WANTED to buy!! (...allways having $ 775 in my mind)
Now - guess what!? There was neither a downloadable version, nor a chance at all to buy an international version of spaceclaim via novedge from germany.
I was amazed and contacted some german and swiss resellers and had to realize, that the german price for spaceclaim was about 1.300 euro (!)...Depending on the exchange-rate for that day and plus 19% VAT (germany) that would have summed up to 2066 US $ compared to 775 US $, if there was a downloadable version available at novedge.... like is for almost every other software they sell.
(OK - I'm selfemployed - so lets forget about the VAT, if I buy in germany)
The other day I finally bought 'HyperShot' ($ 899), a compagnion-product to spaceclaim - OF COURSE as a downloadable version!
(by the way - another amazing story is, that 'HyperShot' is called a Partner/Compagnion-product
on the spaceclaim-website...but when I tried to figure out, if that means, that there either is a
version of spaceclaim pro with hypershot already being built into it available, or if there is only a
built-in plugin in spaceclaim pro, I just could'nt (figure out)...there were two different statements as to that.
One said: HyperShot HD only works with spaceclaim pro, the other was: ..it works with all versions - exept the LT-version.
I would have rather prefered to buy spaceclaim pro with HyperShot HD as a bundle.)
Back to the european pricing of spaceclaim LTX....
For 1800 US $ I can book a two way ticket to NY or Miami, buy spaceclaim, pay the customs, get back and still have some money left. DOES this marketing approach really make sense to anyone?
Call me 'naive' - but I'll keep on wondering, why all the bankers in this world are not even allowed but forced to make money out of exchange rates by buying or selling foreign currencies, while WE (the 'simple' ones) are prosecuted by our tax-administrations and customs for the same idea, when buying products and comparing offers around the globe (SIMPLY BEACAUSE it is possible!). We either have a global market or we don't have it. We either are world-citizens with a global communication or we ain't. Especially for software, there seems no obvious reason for having totally different prices all around the globe.
OR can any 'master of economics' or similar please explain to me, why this would make sense in a 'global village' - I'd badly like to learn about the arguements.
The only reason I could possibly think of is, that european and especially german resellers are not willing to sell low-price-products, because they would argue, that they won't make enough money compared to the IMMENSE ;/ amount of work, that it takes to sell a piece of software on the phone :) That may well be the reason for the fact, that you can't buy 'spaceclaim LT' in germany.
But that was YESTERDAY - make spaceclaim purchasable via download and you will see, that it works. Don't buy into resellers arguements like: "CAD-software has to have a high price in germany - else noone will take it for serious"..its not true!! Rhino, Sketchup-Pro* and Alibre are proving the opposite. And if the market is an estimated 5.000.000 professional CAD-Users around the globe at this time, you will see it explode with the 'spaceclaim' kind of UI/approach very soon, if you do not only keep it simple and fast but also affordable (I'm talking about overall prices below $ 1.000)
*just take a look at the unbelievably high number of sketchup-related entries/tutorials at 'youtube'. What does that tell you?
I'm promoting and selling sketchup-pro (and a bunch of other CAD/Modelling software) and NOONE ever had a problem with 350 € for an 'engine' like that.
The sale usually consumes no extra time at all, since everyone has played around with the freely available public version of 'sketchup' before they decide to buy the 'pro'-version.
Don't forget that Rhino penetrated the market the way it did, because it was easyly available at a very affordable price.
Rhino's clients, as well as Sketchup's clients are in their vast majority INDIVIDUALS...freelancers, small offices...so small budgets mainly ...but budgets.
Spaceclaim is the right idea at the right TIME - but in the meanTIME, TIME is riding very fast theese days, especially in this business.
The big players already offer visions and/or ready solutions (NX, Solidegde, inventor, solidworks (soon), CoCreate) with the very same technology, so no need for the big companies to switch to another very new software with all the inherent risks.
*By the way - I'm not talking about nationalized (language addopted) versions, but about international versions.
Everyone here in germany (who has successfully achieved his drivers-licence and in addition is able to handle his tv-remote controls :) ought be able to operate a system like 'spaceclaim' with ease...
So please - where's the international language version for download and purchase via novedge? :)
I'm absolutely no marketing specialist, but thinking about it and having to do with this business as an
end-user and as a CAD-consultant for almost two decades I strongly believe, that selling i.e. 100.000 licenses in the first year for say $ 775 results in a reasonably strong community having the power to financially support further fast development of the software to have it established, whereas selling i.e. 20.000 licenses for say $ 2.500 ends up in a much smaller community...and when it comes to the next step/upgrade less power for development.
A). 775 $ x 100.000 = 77.500.000 $ compared to i.e. B). 2.500 $ x 20.000 = 50.000.000 $
>>> first upgrade
A). 500 $ x 50.000 = 25.000.000 $ compared to B). 500 $ x 10.000 = 5.000.000 $
I'm not very firm in math's, but my favourite solution was definitly plan A.
You may also call it the McNeel-plan :)
'nough and thx for today :)
klaus middendorf
ps:
division: 'hot rumors' :)
Do you think GOOGLE has allready become aware of 'spaceclaim'?
AT LAST :) (or I should better say - finally) they are the guys who out of the blue bought 'atLast-Software' and made SketchUp even more famous and since someone on the forum found this marvelous comparison and called spaceclaim "a SketchUp on Steroids" :) (I love that one!) they might get the clou and buy spaceclaim...
or worse for spaceclaim !!! copy the idea and harvest the market with something like a
'SketchUp Pro-engineering edition'* :) ...Beware of the GOOGLES - powerfull they are!!! .. and never think it was impossible!
(* especially the PTC-people would like this title - would'nt they?)
SECOND(...last...)LY - did anyone register, what's going on at Dassault Systems? Take a look at 3D-VIA-shape - IT has already begun!
Its the SketchUp approach but it does'nt seem to feature Polygon-modelling any longer and ...look at the UI and the 'Pull-technology'.
Got it? http://www.3dvia.com/software/3dvia-shape/ ...watch it! Trust me - they will have filleting and chamfering just the way spaceclaim has in the very near future.
Professionals will still know, that there is a big difference, but psychologically this will have a tormendous
effect on the way newcomers look at this 'push-pull-technology'. They just won't appreciate it the way they should...and selling it as an 'advanced technology' becomes a pain because it seems so common and everybody will tell how easy to use (perception = simple) it is.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Blake Courter on -
Hi Klaus,
Thanks for all of the kind words.
Our list price for SpaceClaim LTX is €995. I am aware that some resellers in Europe advertise it at a lower price than that. Perhaps the resellers you spoke with were quoting you on a different SpaceClaim configuration?
Also, the US list price for SpaceClaim LTX is $895, not $775. Again, resellers set their own pricing. Our uplift overseas is customary with industry practices. We are sensitive to fluctuating currencies and react to them as necessary to create win-win relationships with our customers.
FYI, future readers: email sales@spaceclaim.com if you are having difficulty locating resellers in your area. We can provide you with your local options. Klaus just mentioned on a separate thread that he has successfully purchased SpaceClaim.
-Blake
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Permalink Reply by Klaus Middendorf on -
Hi Blake,
why no downloadable version? just interested in the arguements.
best
klaus
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Permalink Reply by Blake Courter on
-
SpaceClaim is available for download, which is our typical form of distribution. We will gladly send a CD when requested.
-
Permalink Reply by Klaus Middendorf on
-
Hi Blake,
If you search for a download as a newby, you won't find one.
No reseller is offering a download and it is absolutely not obvious on the spaceclaim site at all.
By the way - I tried two times to get a quote/offer via your web-site and there was only one answer telling me that I would have to wait for one week (?) I waited and nothing at all happened.
I guess though, that that was due to christmas time :)
You wrote the price was between 895 $ in the states and 985 € in europe...look at the european resellers web-sites - most of them show completely different numbers ...I'm not against a free market...and I'm sure after a while the price will level itself out globally, but I think this is affecting your/spaceclaims success, because people nowerdays compare prices (globally) and engineers are in their vast majority able to speak english. Their customers do - so they have to.
Thats why a downloadable version via spaceclaim website should be obvius and easily accessable and not hidden behind contact forms
best
klaus
just installed spaceclaim on my new asus-notebook (delivered only today)...
when I tried to install 'hypershot HD' it said: NO - this piece of software has already been asigned to
a different hardware. :/ I have to wait now until someone at bunkspeeds helps me to reasign it to my
new machine. You promised it was more easy with 'spaceclaim' - did'nt you ?
-
Permalink Reply by Franco Folini on -
Klaus,
Let me clarify: only SpaceClaim Professional is available as download.
SpaceClaim LTX is available only as a physical shipping. It cames in a DVD case with DVD and no printed manuals, the same package as Rhino 4.0).
-
Permalink Reply by Eric Guneriussen on -
Hi, new guy her with some questions :)
I`m thinking of buying Sapceclaim Style, but I am confused with the options regarding subscription and maintenance.
I contacted my local reseller about pricing and whether or not the newest SP would be included when I purchased. I got an email that stated the different options and prices.
There was two thing that bothered me quite a bit:
1. I was told that if I would to purchase a Perpetual Licence I was forced to purchase a subscrition service.
2. The price in Europe (Norway) 965€ + 325€ for subscription =1290€ = 1820 USD with todays rate, plus VAT in my case (+25% in Norway).
Then I went over to Novedge and to my amazement there was an option to purchase a download version (SpaceClaim Style with Subscription, digital delivery) for 999 USD, thats 50% off and in my case even more since I can get it VAT and toll free.
Where is the logic in pricing?
I`m also confused with Novedge. When I click add to cart for Style with subscripion I get an option to purchase maintenance for 280 USD. Whaat... ?
What`s the difference, what`s included, do you have to buy subscription/mantenance along with the licence, is SP2 included i I purchase today, how many months is the "with subscription" valid for?
Sorry for the blowout in my very first post, I really want to purchase this really cool software.
I`ve played with the demo and loved it, but this confusion is putting me off and I suspect I`m not the only one.
When you sell something it`s bad business to make it hard for people to purchase your product.
Make it simple, look at Modo`s way of selling their product, same price for everyone, downloadable and friendly licence policy. That`s how you get loyal customers who will pay for every upgrade regardless. Forcing people is bad business IMHO.
Sorry again if I seem negative :) I`m just a little frustrated.
Help needed, please!
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Permalink Reply by Klaus Middendorf on
-
hello eric,
I'm not 100% sure (here you can see that I'm still confused as well about the pricing and what different resellers tell us), but when you buy the permanent license it seems a 1 year supscription is included.
Subscription meaning that you get all SP's/updates for free for that period of time, whereas maintenance entitles you to call the support and get advice and active support on projects.
(SC - I hope I did'nd get it wrong)
I agree with you - a subscription does'nt feel well in the first place...you only know what you have paid for, when the year is over. I have to admit though, that the SC-developers have been VERY busy and every customer will surely be very pleased with their outputs.
The SC-marketing guys obviously want the money to come in continously...
I would however prefer to pay smaler amounts for each SP/update.
I guess in the end its more easy to pay 'on demand', because its less money at a time and you will know what you get before...and SC as a company would have the same amount of money at their hands. This kind of sale/support also offers the resellers much more possibilities to act and customers, especially most engineers like to get new CAD-tools every now and then...for them SP's are like 'christmas' - trust me :)
And - YES - SC as a company seems to focus on companies and engineering departements and not on single individuals with their pricing...though I have to
state, that SC is a pleasure to use and definitely worth every single daim.
I can only recommend it.
best
klaus
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Permalink Reply by Eric Guneriussen on
-
Thank you Klaus for the response!
If this is the case regarding subscription and licensing, I`m bying.
I agree with you that it is worth the price if you get one year of updates,
and have no doubt that the developers are putting a lot of effort in development.
Can someone from Spaceclaim confirm this?
Best,
Eric
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Permalink Reply by Picetti on -
Hi Klaus,
I have had the same price experience here in Sweden!
Can not either understand why it isn't possible to buy it as a download from US.
I'm also a Rhino user and think Spaceclaim would be THE perfect complement.
Regards,
Per
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Permalink Reply by Klaus Middendorf on
-
time is running even faster .... did anyone take notice of 'bonzai3d'? ...we will have to!
I'm still very courious about what the googles have in mind with sketchup now...?
What about the already proposed 'sketchup pro-engineering'-edition? :)
or ...will microsoft come out with an evolution of former 'truespace'...which already featured 'nurbs'
and by the way had 'push-pull-technology' many years before others thought about it.
couriously
klaus
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Permalink Reply by Michael on -
Klaus:
All the other software out there is interesting (SketchUp, Bonzia, TrueSpace, 3D Via) but they are not Engineering tools. They are more or less clay modelers. They are more for preliminary napkin sketches, characters, or graphic design and not mechanical/electrical engineering.
I mean yes, you can do an mechanical part to the n'th detail in TrueSpace - I have used it and seen what others have done in their gallery, but when it comes to knocking out a detail drawing if a client needs it, or making changes to the parts with numerical accuracy, and lastly moving files around in an easily universal way - the design/artsy tools start to either fail or make the process sloooooooow.
They can be used as a complimentary tool though. Not at much anymore with programs like HyperShot. In the past I have sent CAD models off to a designer who would render them in Strata so we could do light studies on products that had LEDs on them. That process actually helped us to select the proper powered bulbs with the right lense type for the best light cone in our use. Many CAD packages now have great rendering packages that come with them (SolidWorks & PhotoWorks for example).
Also consider that programs in the CAD arena can typically open other CAD packages' native files, such as SpaceClaim opening a SolidWorks or Catia file. Yes you sometimes have to purchase an import/export filter but I would like to see TrueSpace open up a SolidWorks sheet metal part or assembly and work with it.
3D via - neat design package - like sketchup on steroids but I stopped playing with it after I got tired of logging in everytime I ran the program, not being able to save files to my computer but rather you have to up load them to Dassaults' 3DVia website. Also most all the work shown in the 3Dvia galleries are from other programs! Many of them are clearly imported in from Maya, 3DStudio, etc. and then 'touched' up or just so they can be uploaded to the 3Dvia site as a 'look what I can do.....in other software.'
I will say that Rhino is the only true solid marriage of 3D graphic design and engineering. It is also a great way to play well with packages from across the spectrum as it lies right in the middle. Rhino has done a great job in working with so many software companies and including different import/export filters and solutions making it so Rhino files can come in from one side and be sent right out the other side.
mjs
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Permalink Reply by Klaus Middendorf on
-
Yes michel,
I absolutely agree with you. Perhaps I had better stated, that I'm working somewhere inbetween the industrial design and interior design business. CAD is ofcourse much different from pure 'styling' but quite (!) often you will find, that industrial designers also play around with packages like the ones I named. (forgot about cinema 4D.) Those are unexpensive, easy to learn and most of them are able to render properly.
It helps to start your workflow with boxmodelling in some cases...which is (sometimes with the help of plugins) what you can so with sketchup, truespace, silo, hexagon, carrara, cinema4d, 3dsmax.
Its an approach with more freedom in terms of modelling. Especially when it comes to organic designs.
I'm not at all talking about maschine design and engineering.
This has also much to do with the new possibilities in the field of 'rapid prototyping'.
Just GO and build your design-modell and do the engineering in a kind of reverse step from
SDS-modelling-data to nurbs or the like. (I'm thinking of models for assesoirs, jewelery, toys
and the like.)
companies like 't-splines' have clearly identified this growing demand in the design-market.
Also take a look at 'imagine & shape' which is now integrated into CATIA...the very same approach!
A must see! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwOuaNvpPLI ...take a close look at this and tsplines too and you will understand my point of view.
What SC-corporation did with SP2 was dead-right...introducing surface-tweaking is the right way
to make other modelling packages obsolete in the workflow in the end....which I would be delighted about,
because it takes a lot of money to have all the packages updated and it takes a lot of time to dig into them properly (which means even more money)
I also totally agree with you concerning Rhino...
What I'm curious about is, if a company like google/microsoft sees the potential market and
starts surfing on that wave too.
Since Bonzai3d is a nurbs-modeller now they would have to introduce a better one...even if their
goal is modelling for google earth / virtual earth. Its all about beeing ahead technoloy-wise :)
I'm simply courious what's comming next :) and I was referring to my first posting too.
It was quite a surprise, how fast autodesys brought this to the market, as they might kill/transfer their main product 'form-z' in the long term.
best
klaus
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